Tech Help, RC10TC3 Setups

Tire Diameter Adjustment:
If you change tire diameter you can affect your gearing. You can calculate any
gearing adjustments by using the following formulas:

Old Tire Dia.    divided by  New Tire Dia.  =  Factor
     2.1	 divided by     1.9	    =  1.105


Old pinion X  Factor = results = New pinion
     18    X   1.105 =  19.98  = 20 (round off to nearest whole number)

2 I have a 9 turn motor on my TC3. What's the gearing for 64 pitch?

The 64 pitch gear has 104 teeth, so:
104/29 x 2.5 = 8.97 (start here)
104/30 x 2.5 = 8.67 (more top speed)

3 The rear end started to snake every time I put down the power, which was causing me to spin.

Check on all the pins for the arms and make sure that they are not bent. If there is no problem there check on the rear toe in and make sure it's equal on both sides. That is generally what causes the problem that you describe.

4 What does adding more or less caster do?

More caster provides greater stability at high speed, and less decreases it and makes the car twitchy.

5 What is the droop gauge for?

The droop gauge is so you can set the down travel of the arms in equal amounts. This adjustment helps to speed up or slow down how fast the car changes directions when cornering. Higher the traction the less droop you need, the bumpier the track more droop is required.

6 I am confused about how to set the tweak on my TC3.

To set the tweak of a 4WD independent suspension kit using the Tweak Station:
1. First check to make sure your car suspension does not bind in any way, and that your turnbuckles are at proper length. Disconnect any sway bars.
2. Place your car onto the tweak machine, carefully centering the car tires according to the tick marks on the stationary and rocker beams. It does not matter which direction the car faces. For these instructions, we'll assume you put the front end on the rocker beam.
3. Push down and let off on the middle of the front and rear shock towers several times to loosen them.
4. Check the bubble level. If the bubble is centered, then the car is not tweaked. No adjustments are necessary.
5. If the bubble floats to the right, then adjust the front shock spring on the other side, the left, to compensate for tweak. (This means that you add a preload spacer between the shock hex portion and spring, or turn the nut on the threaded shock to push the spring downward.) If the bubble floats left, then adjust the front shock spring on the right.
6. Re-attach the sway bar, being careful not to upset the tweak.

7 The setup has plenty of initial steering, but none in mid-corner or on the way out of the corner. This even happens at slow speeds.

To gain more steering during mid-corner and exiting, try using a little more toe-in or even try using a one-way diff.

8 I did not manage to have the right gear clearance with a ratio of 21/72 (motor 11*3): I cannot get enough rotation of the motor cam to reduce the clearance.

Our drivers have been able to gear as low as a 17/72. Use the other holes in the motor and it should take up the extra spacing.

9 How does the handling change when the shocks are moved inboard on their upper mounting location?

When you move the shocks in it increase the side bite.

10 If the camber link is moved up one hole on its inner mounting location how does this affect camber change while cornering?

Using a longer mounting point will increase traction and a shorter one will decrease traction.

11 Prior to the wing from my body coming loose, the car was on rails. When the wing came loose, it actually made the car less stable!

Wings are a vital part of the car's stability. Depending on the angle and how much of the wing you cut, it will cause the car to handle differently. Also the canards, which are sides of the wings, can change the handling based on how tall and long they are. So you have a lot of variables that you can play with on the wings for different handling characteristics. I know the info I gave you is just the tip of it, so you might want to get a book from the library regarding wings used on Indy cars and about spoilers, then you will have more of an understanding.

12 What are the advantages of using the droop screws/arms?

Droop affects shock travel. If the track is a high traction, such as carpet, then you may want to take droop out of your car by going higher on the droop gauge. Too little droop will cause a loss of traction.

13 When would I use a sway (anti-roll) bar?

Sway bars are generally used on smooth, high traction track conditions. If you are driving on a high bite surface and your car wants to over steer, then use the optional #3960 anti-roll bar kit on the front only. If your car is under steering, then try the optional #3960 anti roll bar kit on the rear only.

14 The springs in the rear dampers could easily brush against the composite CVDs.

Make sure when you rebuild your car that you have the small 4-40 nut on the top screw that positions the shock out away from the CVD so it should not rub.

15 What is the difference between the different width in sedan wheels?

The wider the tire, the more contact area you have on the ground, which should help you with traction and grip in the corners.

16 How much weight would I save by installing the TC3 blue aluminum screws?

About a gram.

17 How can I make my TC3 go faster?

Change your gearing. The formula for gear ratio is as follows:
Spur/pinion x 2.1 (transmission ratio)= Final drive.
The higher the number, such as 11.0 = more torque.
The lower the number, such as 3.5 = more speed.

18 I just bought a TC3 Racer kit and the CVDs keep falling out.

It's possible that you have them shimmed incorrectly, and they are too far out from the out drives. OR you have too much negative camber and the tires are leaning too far out from the car. And it could be that you have too much travel and when the shocks fully extend they allow the CVD to come out of the out drives.

19 What happens when loosening or tightening front or rear diff?

If you tighten, it should give you more on power steering, and if you loosen, it could create a push.

20 What does harder or softer oil to do the front?

It determines the dampening of your car. It helps control how quickly the spring rebounds. In other words, the shock springs hold your car off the ground; oil determines how the car regains that height after it transitions in and out of the corners.

21 What does a harder or softer spring do?

The spring is to keep the vehicle level. Stiffer springs help your suspension respond more quickly, and softer of course make it respond slowly. Stiffer equals less traction and soft equals more traction is a very general way of looking at it.

22 You say you needed a tweak board and that lifting the tires with a blade trick wouldn't work for a 4-wheel drive car. Why is that?

On a flat pan car, the rear axle is fixed in place. They will already be pushing down the same. They are also a good, fixed base by which to check the front suspension when it is lifted. But if the rear is uneven, as with a kit having four-wheel suspension, then there is no sound base to measure the front suspension from. The idea of setting chassis tweak is to get all four tires pushing down with equal weight. The best tool for this is a tweak board.

23 What does changing the camber link locations do for car handling?

Higher and longer gives more traction. Lower and shorter gives less traction.

24 The rear parts of the car always pull to the right direction when accelerating.

Pulling right under acceleration can be many things:
Is the tweak set correctly?
Are all shocks working correctly?
Are the diffs assembled and adjusted correctly?
Is the tow in and tow out adjusted correctly?
Is camber the same front and rear on all four corners?
Many questions and many possibilities to check first. If any of these things are wrong then the car may not function properly.

25 I was wondering about the different shock mounts and pistons and what affect they have.

In the front if you lay them down, it increases on power steering and side bite.
In the rear it would increase stability and side bite.
As for the shock pistons: if track conditions are bumpy you would need to go to lighter oils and bigger piston holes so the shocks can react faster to the surface. If conditions were smooth then you would use heavier oils and smaller piston holes.

26 You can achieve 0 deg. toe in at the rear of a TC3 with stock parts. Here's how.

If you grind the bumper tab off of the front mount you can put both front hinge mounts in the rear.

27 How does suspension droop affect a TC3's handling?

Excessive droop will cause excessive chassis roll. that is why we suggest the use of limiters in the shocks.

28 My TC3's wheels turn in the same direction on both the front and rear axles.

You may have them too tight since they will not "diff". We would suggest you take them apart and build them again to make sure everything is in its right place.

29 I would like to know what pinion/spur gear combination is good for stock racing and for modified racing?

The TC3 will work great in stock geared 75/22 and in modified gear it 75/19.

30 What would you suggest for a pinion to use with a 19 turn motor for the TC3?

26.

31 My TC3, wants to pull to one side. Camber seems to be fine in both front & back.

Any "pulling" problems are usually caused by one of the these problems: out of tweak, improper diff assembly, improper shock assembly, and bleeding or even bent hinge pins. Try checking or rebuilding all of the above.

32 How does steering bearing kit help performance?

It only helps a little when there is load from steering when the car is at speed.

33 After assembling the diffs, they don't feel as smooth as the instructions suggest. I am used to building diffs for pan cars like the L3 Oval and the diffs I have assembled for the TC3 certainly don't feel as free and smooth as the L3 Oval diff.

The diffs are entirely different from the L3. Until they are run in a bit they may feel a bit "stiffer" than what you are used to, if you have assembled them correctly. Add enough black grease to small diff balls. Don't add tons of lube on the diff balls in the gear. One small drop on each ball is adequate.

34 What's the largest 64 pitch spur gear that will fit on the TC3?

104.

35 My TC3 is considerably slower than the other TC3s.

Assuming your speed control and batteries are okay you can start increasing the pinion size. Also check to see that there is no binding in all parts of the drive train. It should all spin freely.

36 What exactly will a lighter weight oil do?

Lighter oil: Reacts to bumps quicker, increases traction, increases chassis roll.

37 What will stiffer springs do?

Stiffer springs: Decreases chassis roll, reacts slower to bumps. Change to red springs: Car will be flatter in turns and will turn more aggressively. Scrub less speed in the corners. Overall the car should be faster if the traction is good.

38 I run the TC3 on ozite carpet. The car chatters as it goes around turns.

Chattering is a result of over-dampening or too much tire bite. Test different compounds and try not to have the car so "stuck" to the track. Definitely try sway bars.

39 I seem to have a "twist" in the chassis.

All manufacturers' molded chassis will have some small degree of, as you put it, "twist." It is a byproduct of this process. However, if you over-tighten the motor clamp, you will exaggerate the amount of twist. Always tighten the innermost screw first. Then lightly tighten the outer screw. A .040-.050" (1-1.2mm) gap between the clamp and bulkhead under the outermost screw should remain after tightening. The clamping system does not require much tension to hold the motor.

40 I have Yokomo inch up wheels commonly used by SoCal RC racers but the holes are too small for the CVD axles!

All std hex wheels are made for 4mm axles.

41 Can I use the springs that I currently have for my non-Associated kit?

The TC3 springs are 25mm long, about 16mm outside diameter, and about 14mm inside dia. Compare these dimensions with whatever kit you have for best fit for your kit.

42 Is the rear Toe In set from the factory?

Rear toe-in of 3 degrees comes standard. You can change the toe-in to 2 degrees with arm mounts #3864.

43 What size of spur gear is included with the racer kit?

Starting gear ratios. From the manual:
24 deg. ROAR stock motor, 28/72.
36 deg. stock motor, 26/72
16t mod, 26/72
15t mod, 25/72
14t mod, 24/72
13t mod, 23/72
12t mod, 22/72
11t mod, 21/72
10t mod, 20/72
9t mod, 19/72
Note: Increasing the pinion size by more than one tooth can damage your motor from excess heat. These combinations result in a final drive ratio of 2.5:1. 72t spur is included in kit.

TC3 Setups
From Terry Rott, Hobby Stop, Cleveland
Carpet setup with foam (PDF version): All stock linkage set up per directions. I did move my shocks to inner holes mainly for lower body mounting. Low baby!! Tire size was 2.220 to 2.200 with TRC purple rears and Trc magentas front. Shocks had 80 wt oil with #3 pistons. Internal spacers were 6 front and 4 rear. My car had just over 1/8th of inch for ground clearance. I used Picco green front spring (40 pound?) no sway bar and Picco white (30 pound??) with sway bar. My battery lay out was 4 back with 2 forward. I used the front "f" block in the front rear for reduced toe in. I also used the extra front steering rack spacer to increase Ackerman. I did NOT use the one-way, just all wheel drive! My previous experience told me to do this set up. My motor choice was D4 8turn double geared with 48 pitch gears. 22/72 all little high but no problem with run time. Everything else is per the directions. Thanks Associated for a great car.

For carpet,
Soft foam tires with standard setup.

For carpet
Start with 40-60 wt. shock oil, the stock springs (even though you might have to go a little stiffer) and what ever tires your local track runs. We don't use foam here, so the Pit tires in 25 compound with stock foam work the best. If your local track has tons of traction, put a stiffer foam in the tires.

From pwrcracer
This is the set-up that I ran last week on carpet. All stock shock & camber locations.
Front: spring/red piston/#2 oil/40wt limiters/7 Tires/Pit 30's
Rear: spring/red piston/#2 oil/25wt (The lighter oil allows the car to accelerate much better on semi-bumpy parking lot tracks.) limiters/5 sway bar Tires/Pit 25's
The car had very good steering and was very stable.
inserts....front Yokomo molded medium and rear yokomo molded soft, might try med in rear as well.

From pwrcracer
For a semi-smooth parking-lot with fairly good bite (sugar water).
All stock shock & camber locations.
Front: Spring/copper piston/#2 oil/40wt limiters/6 ride height/4-1/2 to 5mm.
Rear: Spring/red piston/#2 oil/25wt limiters/4 ride height/same as front.
Go slightly softer on spring & less limiters for bumpy/slick surfaces (standard kit setup, but stay light on the rear oil).

From Glen Gregorio, at So Cal:
Copper Springs (front) w/35wt oil and Red Springs (Rear) w/30wt. I ran a rear sway bars (don't really know if I needed them) and 29 pinion on my epic can motor (stock) and ran the car w/a 24 &26 pinion on a Yokomo can stock motor. My buddy and I aren't sure, but a 25 pinion might be the right gearing for that track layout (didn't have a 25 pinion so we're not 100% sure). For tires I finally ran Yokomo Sprints with Zip tire sauce—NO MORE SLIPPIN’ AND SLIDING!

From JT, Western R/C track:
I built the team edition and set it up basically as the instructions say, with 60 weight silicone and 50 in the rear, stock springs out of the box and some Yokomo slicks that I had. On the 29th I was down to Western RC and trying it out at the Nats. The rear end was very loose, and on recommendation from some of the Associated drivers, I went to 40 and 40 all around, with gold on all 4 corners. I also lowered the travel of the car within 4-6 mm from the ground. At which point I charged a fresh pack, put a 27 tooth pinion gear on my stock motor and threw it on the track once again. The car was unbelievably hooked!!!

From JONSKI:
Great carpet set-up: stock set-up except: Front shocks: 40wt., 7 limiters, red springs. Rear shocks: 30wt., 5 limiters, blue springs. Batteries forward, front swaybar. I am using Pit Shimizu radial with stock foam and 25 compound. You may want to try a harder foam in the tires. This set-up works great in stock and mod.

From Carl Giordano:
For smooth ozite carpet:
Front Suspension: caster: O roll bar: ASC 3960 ackerman: standard ride height: 5.1mm bump steer: 0 kick-up: 2 camber: -2 toe-in/toe-out: 0
Front Shocks (alum.) overall shock length: 62.20mm limiters: 6(inside) 2.90mm(outside) piston: #2 oil: 60 wt spring: Trinity Yellow Congo(weight ???- heavier than copper) shock mounts & camber position: stock
Rear Suspension: anti-squat: stock roll bar: (did not have one to try) ride height: 5.1mm toe-in: 3 camber: -2
Rear Shocks (alum.) overall shock length: 64.00mm limiters: 4(inside) 3.87mm(outside) piston #2 oil: 50wt spring: ASC gold shock mounts & camber piston : stock
Other: tires: Proline/Jaco Purple FR & Rear tire size: 62.5mm tire additive: paragon (rear only) batteries: back no one way(unavailble) spur: 75t / 25pinion 13x2 Mighty Modified Motor Graphite arms only!!! Surface: smooth ozite carpet
Note: make sure that drivers trim the inside rear rims for the Jaco Tires. They sometimes rub on the camber ball cups. Also run the front diff. tighter than the rear helps make the car more stable, I have found.

TC3
Rally Setup

from Tony Phalen, for So. Cal track: FRONT: 20wt oil, #2 piston, silver spring, 0° caster. Put rear shock tower on front, shocks all the way out (top), outer hole (bottom). Camber link down and out. F2+0. Arms slightly above level. REAR: 20 wt. oil, #2 piston, green rear springs. Shocks all the way in (top), inner hole (bottom). Camber link up and in. Rear hubs forward. R3+2 block. Arms slightly above level.

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Tech Help, RC10TC3 Setups

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TC3 Rally Setup

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